Het (r)emigrantentopic - still going strong!

quote:Saby schreef op 20 september 2009 @ 23:50:

Oh, en bij jou is 't nu natuurlijk 22.50... toch laat vandaag?Het is pas 21.50, het valt dus nog mee maar jullie zijn te gezellig.

IJsland lijkt me echt gaaf trouwens, woon je in Reykjavik? De taal lijkt me echt heel moeilijk!

Artemis, de bh-maat is hier eigenlijk wel een vereiste...

quote:Saby schreef op 20 september 2009 @ 23:49:

Vind jij lezen in 't IJslands moeilijk of 't is echt je 2e taal, na 13 jaar? Ik heb met gewone Italiaanse boeken geen enkele moeite maar de 'echte literatuur' (classics) laat ik toch nog even links liggen... Ach, met mij vele italianen, dat dan ook wel weer, haha!Een "gewoon" boek zoals dit kan ik prima lezen hoor. Literatuur laat ik inderdaad links liggen en de saga's al helemaal.

quote:snjokorn schreef op 20 september 2009 @ 23:52:

[...]Het is pas 21.50, het valt dus nog mee maar jullie zijn te gezellig.Wat lief! Ik denk dat ik 't strijken maar voor gezien hou tot morgen... met dit tussendoor steeds schrijven kom ik toch niet veel verder, haha!

quote:ArtemisDCS schreef op 20 september 2009 @ 23:52:

IJsland lijkt me echt gaaf trouwens, woon je in Reykjavik? De taal lijkt me echt heel moeilijk!Ik woon zo'n 50 km ten zuid-westen van Reykjavík. Heb eerst in het noorden gewoond, daarna in het noordoosten en nu dus in het zuidwesten. De taal is inderdaad erg moeilijk (en ik wilde niet naar een duitstalig land omdat ik de duitse gramatica zo lastig vond...).

Hier is het alweer ochtend.. ze zon schijnt, de lucht is stralend blauw en ik heb vakantie :o) heeerlijk!

Grappige cartoon over het Hollandse feestgedrag, haha, hoe langer ik in het buitenland woon hoe meer culturele verschillen ik opmerk.

Artemis, leuk dat je meeschrijft, we hebben verschillende emigranten hier die in Londen gezedten hebben. Blijf je lang?

quote:snjokorn schreef op 20 september 2009 @ 23:53:

[...]

Een "gewoon" boek zoals dit kan ik prima lezen hoor. Literatuur laat ik inderdaad links liggen en de saga's al helemaal.

Wat zijn de saga's eigenlijk? Volksvertellingen?

Gut, 3 pagina's alweer... Hoeveel berichtjes hebben we nu bij elkaar geschreven? 3x 3000? Wauw!

quote:Saby schreef op 20 september 2009 @ 23:54:

[...]





Wat lief! Ik denk dat ik 't strijken maar voor gezien hou tot morgen... met dit tussendoor steeds schrijven kom ik toch niet veel verder, haha!Het zou toch lullig zijn als je door ons een brandplek in je goede kleren krijgt he.

quote:Saby schreef op 20 september 2009 @ 23:56:

[...]





Wat zijn de saga's eigenlijk? Volksvertellingen?Ja zoiets, van die halve wilden (mag ik vast niet zo zeggen want dat is oneerbiedig) die ruzie maken, elkaars vrouwen verkrachten of gewoon meenemen en dat soort zaken.

Njálssaga (Njála)

Overview

This Icelandic epic from the 13th century describes the progress of a series of blood feuds. Its author is believed to have lived in southeast Iceland, but little more is known. It has a deservedly high reputation as the greatest Icelandic saga. The breadth of its subject matter and the references within the text indicate that the author must have been extremely well read.



The events occur between 960 and 1020, as evidenced from the historical reference to King Harold Grayfell (961-976) in chapter three, the Christian conversion of Iceland in 999 covered in chapters 94-101, and the Battle of Clontarf outside Dublin in 1014 in the penultimate chapter.



Although the work broadly agrees with known history and refers to many locations which can still be found along southern Iceland, scholars continue to search for clues to indicate which parts of the saga accurately reflect events and which reflect the art of storytelling. The site of the central event of the saga, the attack and burning of Njáll's farmhouse, has been confirmed by archeological work at a site matching the physical description of the locale, in which evidence of a burned structure was uncovered.



The saga conveys the self-sustaining nature of blood-feuds and the methods used by the Icelandic Commonwealth to try to resolve them. It extends beyond Iceland, including a brief description of the Battle of Clontarf and the death of Brian Boru.



The name is Gaelic in origin, coming from "Niall", which is often anglicised as "Neil".





[edit] Plot



[edit] Hrútur and Hallgerður

The first episode covers the period from the betrothal of Hrútur Herjólfsson and Unnur to the ugly legacy of their divorce. We are shown his exploits in Norway, where he gains honour at court and in battle, but he ruins his subsequent marriage by becoming the lover of the aging queen mother Gunnhildr. When he denies having a woman in Iceland, she curses him so that he is unable to consummate his marriage. After Unnur divorces him, he retains the dowry by challenging Unnur’s father, Mörður, to combat. Mörður refuses, as he knows Hrútur's reputation and that he will lose the fight. Because of this, Hrútur keeps the dowry. While this conforms to Icelandic law, it offends justice.



The first chapter gives one of Hrútur’s insights when he comments of his beautiful niece, “I do not know how thieves’ eyes came into the family”. The saga next follows this niece, Hallgerður, through her first two marriages. Both husbands die by the axe of Hallgerður’s doting, brutish foster-father. Hallgerður provokes the first death but not the second, although it follows from a disagreement between her and her husband. It is Hrútur who, despite the family ties, avenges the death by killing Þjóstólfur.





[edit] Gunnar and Njal

Gunnar Hámundarson and Njáll Þorgeirsson (Njal) are now introduced. Gunnar is a man of outstanding physical prowess, and Njal has outstanding sagacity; they are close friends. When Gunnar is obliged to revive Unnur’s dowry-claim against Hrútur, Njal gives him the means to do so. By skilful play-acting, Gunnar begins the legal process in Hrútur’s own house. He follows Hrútur’s doubtful example when it comes to court, and Hrútur, who has previously won by threat of violence, loses to a threat of violence. Despite his humiliation, he sees future links with Gunnar.



This comes about when Gunnar returns with honours from a trip to Scandinavia. He goes to the Althing – the annual assembly – in splendour, and meets Hallgerður. They fall in love and are soon betrothed, despite Hrútur’s warnings about Hallgerður's character, and Njal's misgivings.



Hrútur and Njal are proven right when Hallgerður clashes with Njal’s wife, Bergþóra. Hallgerður charms a number of dubious characters into killing members of Njal’s household, but the spirited Bergþóra exacts blood revenge. After each killing, their husbands make financial settlements according to the status of the victims. The fifth victim is Þórður Freedmansson, foster-father of the Njalssons; Þráinn Sigfússon, Gunnar’s uncle and Hallgerður's son-in-law, accompanies the killers. When the feud ends and settlements are made, Þráinn’s presence at that killing later causes conflict.





[edit] Gunnar's Feuds

Hallgerður now uses one of her slaves, Melkólfur to burgle the home of a churlish man named Otkel, son of Skarf. Gunnar immediately seeks to make amends, but his handsome offers are not accepted. A lawsuit is started against him which, with Njal’s help, he wins, gaining great honour. However, while remonstrating with Hallgerður about the burglary, Gunnar slaps her.



This is followed by Otkell accidentally wounding Gunnar. Insult follows injury and Gunnar reluctantly goes to avenge himself. With belated help from his brother Kolskeggur, he kills Otkell and his companions.



Under Njal’s influence a new settlement is arranged, and Gunnar’s reputation grows. Njal warns him that this will be the start of his career of killings.



Next, Gunnar accepts a challenge to a horse-fight from a man called Starkaður. In the course of the fight, his opponents cheat, and Gunnar find himself in a fresh squabble. Njal tries to mediate but Þórgeir Starkaðsson refuses to accept it. On a journey with his two brothers, Gunnar is ambushed by Starkaður and his allies. In the battle, fourteen attackers and Gunnar’s brother Hjörtur are killed.



Worming through all this is Unnur’s son, Mörður Valgarðsson. Mörður envies and hates Gunnar, and uses other men to attain his aims. He has learned that Njal prophesied that Gunnar will die if he kills twice in the same family. He instigates an attack on Gunnar by persons dissatisfied by the settlement. Again, Gunnar wins the fight, but he kills a second man in the same family. The settlement that follows requires that Gunnar and Kolskeggur leave Iceland for three years.



Arrangements are made for exile. But as Gunnar leaves home, he looks homeward and, touched by the beauty of his homeland, resolves not to leave Iceland, thus becoming an outlaw. He goes about as though nothing has changed but his enemies, Mörður among them, seek revenge. He defends himself in his home until his bowstring is cut. Hallgerður ensures lasting infamy by refusing to give him strands of her hair to restring his bow; this is in revenge for the slap he once gave her. Some readers choose to interpret this episode as her forgiveness since human hair is unusable as bowstring; i.e. he asks for something he knows is useless and she answers by denying as revenge fully knowing too. His enemies resist Mörður’s proposal to burn him in the house as shameful, but eventually they take the roof off to get to Gunnar. Njal’s son Skarp-Héðinn assists Hogni Gunnarsson in some acts of vengeance before a settlement is achieved.





[edit] Kári and the Njalssons

Scandinavian rulers honour two Icelandic expeditions: those of Þráinn Sigfússon and of Njal’s two younger sons. Both return with enhanced honour, but also with companions. Þráinn brings back the malevolent Betrayal-Hrappur; the Njalssons the noble Kári, who marries their sister. But the Njalssons also bring back a grievance about the way in which the de-facto ruler of Norway, Jarl Haakan, has treated them, unreasonably blaming Þráinn. While Njal says they have been foolish in raising the matter, he advises them to publicise it so that it will be seen as a matter of honour. Þrain refuses a settlement, and his retainers, including Hallgerður, on her last appearance, insult them.



The most dramatic of the saga’s battles follows. The Njalssons, with Kári, prepare to ambush Þráinn and his followers. There is a bridge of ice over the river between them. Skarp-Héðinn overtakes his brothers, leaps the river, and slides on the ice past Þráinn, beheading him in passing. Between them the attackers kill four men, including Hrapp.



Þráinn’s brother, Ketill, has married Njal’s daughter, and between them they bring about a settlement. Wishing to stop further contention, Njal adopts Þráinn’s son Höskuldur as his foster-son. Höskuldur grows up in Njal’s household, and is loved and favoured by him. When he is fully grown, Njal attempts to find a suitable wife for him, HIldigunn. However, she refuses, saying that she will only marry Höskuldur if he becomes a chieftain. Njal manages to get Höskuldur a chieftaincy by instituting the Fifth Court at the Althing, and Höskuldur and Hildigunn are married.



At this point the saga recounts the conversion of Iceland to Christianity in AD 999.





[edit] Höskuldur and Flosi; the Burning

Mörður Valgarðsson now finds Höskuldur to be such a successful chief that his own chieftaincy is declining. He sets the Njalssons against Höskuldur; the tragedy of the saga is that they are so susceptible to his promptings that they, with Mörður and Kári, murder him as he sows in his field. As one character says, “Höskuldur was killed for less than no reason; all men mourn his death; but none more than Njal, his foster-father”.



Flosi, Höskuldur’s wife’s uncle, takes revenge against the killers, and seeks help from powerful chieftains. He is pressured (against his will) by Hildigunn to accept only blood vengeance. The Njalssons find themselves at the Althing having to plead for help. Skarp-Héðinn has become grimly fatalistic, and insults many who might help them.



After some legal sparring, arbitrators are chosen, including Snorri, who proposes a weregild of three times the normal compensation for Höskuldur. This is so much that it can only be paid if the arbitrators, and many at the Althing, contribute. The great collection is gathered, and Njal adds a gift of a fancy cloak. Flosi claims to be insulted by the offer of a unisex garment (an insult from Skarp-Héðinn also adds fuel to the fire) and the settlement breaks down.



Everyone leaves the Althing and prepares, amid portents and prophecies, for the showdown. A hundred men descend on Njal’s home, Bergthorsknoll (Bergþórshvoll), to find it defended by about thirty. Any victory for Flosi will be at some cost. But Njal suggests that his sons defend from within the house, and they, while realizing that this is futile, agree. Flosi and his men set fire to the building.



Both the innocent and the guilty are surrounded. Flosi allows the women to leave but beheads Helgi Njalsson, who attempts to escape disguised as a woman. Although Flosi invites Njal and Bergþóra to leave, they refuse, prefering to die with their sons and their grandson Þórður (the son of Kári). Eventually eleven people die, not including Kári who escapes under cover of the smoke by running along the beam of the house. Flosi knows that Kári will exact vengeance for the Burning.





[edit] The Althing

At the Althing, both sides gather. Flosi bribes Eyjolf Bolverkson, one of the finest lawyers in Iceland, into taking over the case, while his opponents blackmail Mörður Valgarðsson into prosecuting, advised by Þórhall, Njal’s foster-son, who was trained in the law by Njal, but is kept aways from the proceedings by an infected leg. There is a legal joust between the parties. Eventually, when his legal action seems to be failing, Þórhall lances his boil with his spear and begins fighting. Flosi’s men are driven back until Snorri separates the parties. In the confusion, several are killed including Ljótur, Flosi’s brother-in-law.



Ljótur’s father, Hallur of Síða, takes advantage of the truce to appeal for peace, and, in a move that marks a change from Viking to Christian thinking, seeks no compensation for his son. Moved by this, all but Kári and Njal’s nephew Þórgeir reach a settlement, while everyone contributes to Ljótur's weregild, which in the end amounts to a quadruple compensation. The Burners are exiled.



Before the Sigfússons reach home, Kári attacks them, and most the rest of the saga describes his vengeance for the Burning. He is supported by Þórgeir and a comical braggart named Björn. He pursues them to Orkney and Wales. The most dramatic moment is when he breaks into the earl’s hall in Orkney and kills a man who is giving a slanderous account of those killed at the Burning.



After a pilgrimage to Rome, Flosi returns to Iceland. Kári follows, and is shipwrecked near Flosi’s home. Testing Flosi’s nobility he goes to him for help, and they arrange a final peace. Kári marries Höskuldur’s widow. Finally, there is a full reconciliation.

quote:snjokorn schreef op 20 september 2009 @ 23:56:

[...]Het zou toch lullig zijn als je door ons een brandplek in je goede kleren krijgt he.Haha! Nou, ik dacht meer aan 't stroomverbruik ik zet 'm gelukkig wel altijd op z'n achterste, veilig in elk geval voor de katten. Vooral Tommy heeft er nogal een handje van om nieuwsgierig te zijn als ik even wegloop...

quote:orbit schreef op 20 september 2009 @ 23:55:

Hier is het alweer ochtend.. ze zon schijnt, de lucht is stralend blauw en ik heb vakantie :o) heeerlijk!

Grappige cartoon over het Hollandse feestgedrag, haha, hoe langer ik in het buitenland woon hoe meer culturele verschillen ik opmerk.

Artemis, leuk dat je meeschrijft, we hebben verschillende emigranten hier die in Londen gezedten hebben. Blijf je lang?Nog minimaal 3 a 4 jaar. Daarna zie ik wel. Ik denk wel dat ik niet in deze stad wil blijven hangen (die noem ik hier niet, dan word ik echt te herkenbaar).

't is wel duidelijk, water en energie zitten bij mij in de huur inbegrepen (ideaal). Gelukkig zijn mijn katten niet zo "huishoudelijk" aangelegd. Als ik de strijkplank pak, zijn ze foetsie.

Gas hebben ze hier maar heeeeeeel sporadig (oke, voor al die bbq's). Er zijn geen gasleidingen, veelste gevaarlijk met al die aardschokjes en -bevingen.

Snjokorn: Leuk IJslandse saga! Ik ga je tekst straks even lezen.



Ine: Ik hou niet zo van thrillers maar dectives vind ik wel leuk en inderdaad Agatha Christie is geweldig. Die boeken hebben zo'n heerlijke relaxte stijl. Poirot vind ik altijd leuk.



Discovery: We hebben met betrekking tot de kinderen niet echt een keuze gemaakt voor een geloof. Ik breng ze wat van mijn geloof bij en mijn man iets van zijn geloof maar ik beschouw mijn kinderen niet als moslim in elk geval.



Duna: De vliegeraar heb ik hier liggen maar ook nog niet gelezen. Ik heb er wel hele goede dingen over gehoord.



Saby: oh ik dacht dat je bij Milaan woonde maar niet dus.

In het Italiaans zou ik geen hele moeilijke boeken kunnen lezen. De krant gaat prima en een simpel boek ook wel maar echt moeilijke boeken denk ik niet. Ik heb helaas nooit echt goed Italiaans geleerd. Ik heb ooit een poging gedaan om de Goddelijke Komedie in het Italiaans te lezen maar dat was wat te hoog gegrepen. Wel jammer want ik weet zeker dat dit een boek is wat in het Italiaans nog veel sterker en beter is dan in de vertaalde versie.



Zelf heb ik niet echt een bepaald genre wat ik heel veel lees. Ik vind zowel fictie als non-fictie prima. Fantasy en Scifi lees ik ook wel. Verder lees ik opvallend vaak 19de eeuwse melodramatische boeken

Hé Snjo, wauw ik heb even een stukje gelezen: Ijslandse Dynasty en dat 1000 jaar geleden!

Tja, hier is alles apart, en we hebben ook nog ons deel van de elektriciteit van 't gebouw...

Zo, net even het hondje uitgelaten. Er zit een egeltje in de tuin. Die loopt lekker een beetje rond te scharrelen.

En nu duik ik er ook in. Truste allemaal.

De eerste boeken die ik in het ijslands las waren kinderboeken (Nancy Drew, had ik ook al in het nl's gelezen dus bekend), sprookjes boeken (Andersen en Grimm, klassiekers) en vervolgens inderdaad Agatha Christies.



Ik heb daar nu ook een aantal DVD's van, zowel met Poirot als Miss Marple.

quote:Saby schreef op 21 september 2009 @ 00:12:

Hé Snjo, wauw ik heb even een stukje gelezen: Ijslandse Dynasty en dat 1000 jaar geleden!

Tja, hier is alles apart, en we hebben ook nog ons deel van de elektriciteit van 't gebouw...En dit is dan nog maar 1 van de saga's. Geschiedenis is nooit een favoriet van mij geweest.

quote:Rubis schreef op 21 september 2009 @ 00:13:

Zo, net even het hondje uitgelaten. Er zit een egeltje in de tuin. Die loopt lekker een beetje rond te scharrelen.

En nu duik ik er ook in. Truste allemaal.Slaap lekker.

quote:Nymeria schreef op 21 september 2009 @ 00:09:





Ine: Ik hou niet zo van thrillers maar dectives vind ik wel leuk en inderdaad Agatha Christie is geweldig. Die boeken hebben zo'n heerlijke relaxte stijl. Poirot vind ik altijd leuk. Nymeria, jij woont in the UK toch? Ben je al eens in het Agatha Christie house in Devon geweest? Zeker de moeite waard! De hele familie verzamelde van alles en nog wat, dus er is veel te zien. Ik heb daar mijn eerste Agatha Christie gekocht, And then there were none. Heb jij nog aanraders?

quote:Nymeria schreef op 21 september 2009 @ 00:09:Duna: De vliegeraar heb ik hier liggen maar ook nog niet gelezen. Ik heb er wel hele goede dingen over gehoord.

Ja, goed boek!

Saby: oh ik dacht dat je bij Milaan woonde maar niet dus.

Jawel hoor, je hebt helemaal gelijk! We woonden eerst in de provincie Milaan, waar we nu net van afgesplitst zijn en nu dus in de provincie Monza (zonder te verhuizen, haha!). Maar we komen er vrij weinig, net als velen hier, omdat de andere (kleinere) steden, zoals Monza ook alles hebben, maar minder ingewikkeld/duur zijn qua verkeer en parkeerbeleid

In het Italiaans zou ik geen hele moeilijke boeken kunnen lezen. De krant gaat prima en een simpel boek ook wel maar echt moeilijke boeken denk ik niet. Ik heb helaas nooit echt goed Italiaans geleerd. Ik heb ooit een poging gedaan om de Goddelijke Komedie in het Italiaans te lezen maar dat was wat te hoog gegrepen. Wow, dan ga je inderdaad wel erg hoog! Het gros van de italianen zou dit soort taal niet eens begrijpen, volgens mij.

The Orient Express (met Poirot) vind ik leuk

Sleeping murder (met Miss Marple)

Nemesis (Miss Marple)

One-two- buckle my shoe (Poirot)



Om er vast een paar te noemen.

Truste, Rubis! Nog een leuke avond gehad?